18: Date Smarter, Not Harder: Guide to Healthy RELATIONSHIPS ft. Kelly Brändli

Megan J. McCrory:00:00:01

Welcome to another episode of the So Frickin Healthy podcast, the show that gives you an apple a day and food for thought for those who want to have their cake and eat it too. Hello, everybody. I'm Kelly Brandly, and I'm a scientific dating and relationship coach, as well as a professional matchmaker. And I'm today's guest on the So Frickin Healthy podcast. In this episode, we talk about healthy relationships, emotional baggage, attachment styles, and our five love languages. Hi, Kelly. How are you doing today?

Kelly Brandli:00:00:34

Hi, I'm really great. Nice to be here, Danna and Megan. Thank you so much for the invitation.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:00:40

sure thing.

Megan J. McCrory:00:00:42

We've been wanting to have a relationships podcast for a while. I think you talked about sex specifically. I think Donna's got sex on the mind, So before we dive into relationships and stuff, let's just Let's learn a little bit more about you, Kelly. I read that you are in love with Canada and you're from Canada. So where in Canada are you from? And then how did you get over here to Switzerland?

Kelly Brandli:00:01:08

Well, I'm originally from Vancouver, which always leads to the question, why would you leave beautiful Vancouver and come here? And I always say I came for love and I stayed for the love of it. I think it's absolutely beautiful here. there's a long story, about the love that brought me here, and how that ended in flames and tragedy and all kinds of stuff which we can get into. but the outcome of that is I have the most amazing career now, and I get to help people go through all that and come out the other side now.

Megan J. McCrory:00:01:43

You also mentioned in our little pre recording survey that you're an extensive traveler. So I'm curious, what's the most remote place that you've ever traveled to? Mm

Kelly Brandli:00:01:57

The most remote, well I guess it's probably, I lived in Africa in Tanzania for half a year and then I traveled for another year. Um, half year around and so I've been to all kinds of remote places and villages in different parts of Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Burundi, Malawi. I used to spend my weekends on the island of Zanzibar, which is now touristy, but at that time there was nobody there. So I've experienced a lot of things and I did it on my own as a backpacker. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan J. McCrory:00:02:32

so brave. I mean, I think, I think for me, like traveling within Europe and the, in North America, it is easy, right? Because it's kind of culturally ubiquitous from my point of view, it's the same. Ubiquitous is the wrong word, but, you know, anywhere besides these two places, I feel like I don't understand the culture enough to travel, even with other people. I was just telling Donna the other day, I would love to take my mom, to the Holy Land. But it's always a little nerve wracking. Of course, Donna, she's like, whatever, you know, she just goes there and does it because she's familiar with it. So I think familiarity with locations, but I think, isn't that part of the allure? You just don't know what, what it is. So you've got to go explore it for yourself.

Kelly Brandli:00:03:19

Exactly. So, I mean, I was, younger when I did that. When I think back now, I ask myself, what was I thinking? you do those things when you're invincible in your, you know, early adulthood. I did learn Swahili, which helped me tremendously get out of a lot of, binds and close calls and dangerous situations I shouldn't have been in. but yeah, I mean, it was, that was the excitement of it is going to a place that I didn't know anybody that had been to and really just exploring what it was all about with my backpack and my hiking boots.

Megan J. McCrory:00:03:53

Um,

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:03:54

I have to ask this. I know we're, we're now on like a travel, uh, podcast apparently, but that's okay because I'm really curious. Would you let your kids go on that same trip?

Kelly Brandli:00:04:04

Oh, hell no.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:04:05

Okay. Got it.

Kelly Brandli:00:04:08

No, no, no. I actually remember my mom, the day I left, I went to say goodbye to her and she was in such complete denial. She said, where are you going? And I said, I'm going off to Tanzania. And she says, don't be ridiculous. No, you're not. And I said, yeah, I am. And I think that was the only way she managed to survive that period was by completely denying that I was in another continent.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:04:32

Wow, that's hilarious. My mom would like, I don't know, somehow get me back with the power of her laser eyes. don't know how she would do it, but she would do it. So I, as much as I want to hear all about your travels, because it sounds like really, really fascinating stories. I have to ask, because you did mention the love that brought you to and how it ended up in flames. And I think that that's probably a very important story before we even, you know, dig into what you actually do, to understand what actually brought you to do what you do.

Kelly Brandli:00:05:10

Yeah, so I met my ex husband while I was at university. And so there is a natural transition. Part of what brought us together was when he was growing up in Switzerland, his parents spent a lot of time in Africa. And so we actually connected over my travels in Africa, and that sort of brought us together. And then at one point he lost his job and ended up, uh, through a connection of his father getting a job back in Switzerland. And so returned to Switzerland. I said, well, I'm coming with you. Having never heard of Switzerland really before and not knowing where it was, I said, yeah, take me with you. And so that's how I got here. To Switzerland in the first place and then, you know, go on 10 years. We moved many times in between. I lived in Austria and we came back and then my marriage shortly after my son was born, basically exploded, right? All this kind of stuff that we hadn't dealt with, came up and we ended up separating when my son was two years old. three weeks after my ex husband moved out, my mother died, and so I went through this, like I said, really traumatic, crisis situation. I was so devastated by all this loss. Um, having to travel back to Canada, you know, plan a funeral with a two year old, for those of us that have children, we know what that's like, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so it sent me on this journey of how am I going to get through all of this? And at the time I had my own company, I was doing staffing and recruiting in the pharmaceutical industry.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:06:53

Yeah.

Kelly Brandli:00:06:53

And going through this process of how do I cope with this? And what does my future look like? And do I want a relationship again? And if yes, how do I, am I ever going to figure that out led me to start down this path of coaching, learning all there was about the science of dating and relationships, I became a matchmaker. transferring my recruiting skills into the love space. And I found this new purpose in life, which is really to help other men and women who go through similar types of stories. Sometimes they're more traumatic than mine. Sometimes they're less, but at the end of the day is. How do people then move on from a divorce or a breakup to then find really the love of their life and create a healthy, committed long term relationship?

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:07:41

That's amazing. So I have to ask a follow up question. It sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds to me like you became a matchmaker while not actually being in your then new relationship or like the solid new relationship that you're in now.

Kelly Brandli:00:07:59

very perceptive and correct. That is very true. So I wanted to help other people find the love that eluded me at that point.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:08:09

That's really interesting. How do you do that when you don't know how to, not that you don't know, but when you haven't gone through it yourself, I guess.

Kelly Brandli:00:08:20

very good question. And I'll say, you know, there's a lot of people in the industry who are not in relationships. And, you know, it's also there's a saying, right? You don't go to a brain surgeon that operates on himself, right? You go to the guy that knows what he's doing. And oftentimes there's this thing we can help other people a lot more than we can help ourselves. And that was really the process of learning that I went through. It wasn't until I got my own coach that I actually was able to sort it out for myself. And now I have the most amazing partner in the entire world. Sorry, ladies. Um, it's just, yeah, absolutely fantastic. But it took me going through the process of what I now teach other people.

Megan J. McCrory:00:09:06

Yeah, well, no, I have to correct you there. I have the best partner in the entire world.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:09:12

sorry guys,

Kelly Brandli:00:09:14

Yeah.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:09:14

I'm

Megan J. McCrory:00:09:15

No, it's George. George is the best.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:09:18

George is hands down the best human person on the face of the planet, but let's not fight. We're all pretty. Next. Next.

Kelly Brandli:00:09:27

I think actually what we're doing is making the point is at the end of the day, it's about finding the one for us. Right, and our ideal best partner is the one that fits to us and, you know, your best partner is not going to be the same for me and vice versa. And a lot of what people struggle with is thinking that the Hollywood ideal is the best partner for them,

Megan J. McCrory:00:09:54

Mm hmm.

Kelly Brandli:00:09:55

which is not true.

Megan J. McCrory:00:09:56

No, my, my, my, my husband is not a Hollywood ideal.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:10:02

Same for mine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Megan J. McCrory:00:10:14

we were recording about the How relationships fit into health because, you know, we're on the so freaking healthy podcast and maybe I don't know if, I don't know if you can even because it's been a while, but reflect on when you were going through this time, both of losing your mom and your relationship with your husband. what do you can you remember what physical other physical kind of health things went along with being in that state of emotional distress. I mean, I can't imagine that the rest of your body was reacting very well to that or how did your body react and kind of can tie that back into health.

Kelly Brandli:00:11:01

So you're opening up a can of worms here because I, had extreme physical symptoms. going through that. I mean, I was in depression. I'll be open. I ended up taking antidepressants to cope with that, which ended up in emergency heart surgery. yeah. So seven months after it all all happened. so that's how much. A really bad crisis situation out of a relationship can actually physically impact you and on the flip side of that we know from research that having a really happy, healthy relationship can positively impact your health. So, just referencing, many people have heard of it, the Harvard study, this 80 year study where they followed, initially men and then it was expanded by other researchers to look at what creates happiness later in life and what creates good health later in life. And it all comes down to having this really stable, secure, Healthy relationship, and that can actually prevent us from developing things like depression. Later in life, they even were able to show that it positively decreases the pain that we experience. In our seventies and eighties. So if you're in a healthy relationship in your forties and fifties, you experience less pain in your seventies and eighties. I mean, how amazing is that? Yeah. So the joy, happiness, and fulfillment we can experience from relationships can actually help us live longer, healthier lives. Okay.

Megan J. McCrory:00:12:46

Yeah, that's, the blue zones as well. I'm not sure if that's tied with the Harvard study at all, but, the blue zones. Have you heard of this? Where people live to be the closest to a hundred years old, like these areas around the world where people live really, really long lives. And they did also, of studies, talking, staying with these people, learning about the culture, learning about the food, the exercise, you know, all of their lifestyle and why certain groups of people live longer. And in every single one. it was relationships and community. And so not necessarily a romantic relationship as what we're talking about today, but just relationships in general. You know, groups of, I think there was a spot in Japan where there was groups of women who were together since five or six years old, and they have these little groups that they stay with. Until, of course, usually all their husbands die before them because women live longer, you know, so you have to figure this stuff out when you're older, but, they, they've gone through their entire life and they're still with this tiny little group of friends and having that relationship. Also, the, the Church of Latter day Saints, actually, which is a religious group, so it doesn't have to be just culturally, you know, in a specific location, but it also religious groups that have community aspects to it and relationships, and I think that goes to the exactly what you were just saying. They have, because of these relationships, they have lived longer, and that's also the Blue Zones, if you're ever interested, and I think they've done also a documentary, but I think it's also a book as well.

Kelly Brandli:00:14:24

Yeah, I wasn't familiar with the name, but I do know a lot about the studies. I know that they've done research in Japan about these women who move into these communal homes and they buy them in their like 30s and 40s. with the understanding that once our, our husbands pass on, then we'll move in there together, which is fascinating.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:14:43

We should totally

Megan J. McCrory:00:14:43

no, I, I, I'm already planning my golden girl group, you know, that's what I'm calling it. It's my golden girl group, because I, that, that's what's going to happen at some point. I'm going to outlive my husband, and then I'm going to need my girls, you And we're going to just hire someone to come in, cook for us so we can craft all day and binge watch whatever, whatever shows are on.

Kelly Brandli:00:15:04

You just mentioned something that I just wanted to touch on, which is this idea of what is important in relationships. And it's actually the intimacy, right? It's, and I always say intimacy stands for into me you see, and it comes down to vulnerability. Do we have people in our life? Where we feel safe to be vulnerable with that we can share those deepest parts of ourselves and you know, a worry shared is a worry. What did they say? That saying, it's it's yeah, it's half or something. And this is part of this relationship is do you have that kind of intimate relationship in your life where you can share those burdens that when you go through? a crisis situation, you have somebody who actually not just supports you, but goes through it with you and wants you to come through it as if they are with like they are going through it themselves. And that's the real key, so having, thousands of Facebook friends doesn't really count as relationships as much as having those 123 really deep intimate connections.

Megan J. McCrory:00:16:11

Silence.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:16:15

now can relate to, which was COVID, right? We all of a sudden from being, you know, whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, you had a certain degree of, socializing. And if it's, in the office seeing people or if it's going to networking events or going to restaurant with friends and that just stopped completely and so some of us were lucky enough to have our families around who either kept us sane or drove us crazy depending on who you ask right? but other people were alone and I know that there is A little bit of a story for you, Kelly, with COVID. I'm not going to continue the question. I think you know where I'm going with this.

Kelly Brandli:00:16:59

Yeah, so I met my partner Renee, right before the lockdown. And so we actually had had three dates before we went into lockdown. And I have asthma. And so I was really scared about having any kind of contact with the outside world in those early days. And so initially what I had said is, well, we'll just do this lockdown thing and, you know, it'll be over in a few weeks and then, um, we'll, we'll see each other again, and so we had made an agreement that we wouldn't meet again. And so, you know, we went into lockdown and the first week we, chatted back and forth on WhatsApp and then I got really creative and I got. These things, these bands that vibrated so we could like touch each other without seeing each other. Like you could touch it and it would vibrate and we would, share t-shirts. Like I would put it in the post box and he would come get it and leave me one of his T-shirts so we could smell each other, like all this kind of stuff we did and then we realized this was never gonna work And so we had a really. early discussion of, well, why don't we just move in together? And so our fourth date was literally him coming with his son and his dog and moving into my house. And, uh, what was it then? Six weeks of together, 24, seven, we figured it was make or break either. We were going to come out the other side and say, thank you. I never want to see you again. Or if we've survived this, you know, we can survive anything. And luckily it was the ladder and, um, our story, if anyone, you know, wants to read the details is in Forbes. Forbes did a segment on COVID romances and it was, uh, written up in there. So it was quite a, a COVID love story.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:18:45

Wow.

Megan J. McCrory:00:18:47

cool. But that takes a leap of faith, a leap of faith. But if I remember correctly, before you met Renee, you mentioned that you went on 96 dates before you found the one. Maybe you could elaborate on this, because it sounded to me like 96, first of all, does she keep a notebook? And if so, I love her, because that's data collection, like, and it was it like, Was it really like all in for 96 dates? Or were you like, let's go in this date, test some theories, more scientific method, like, where was your headspace with the dates?

Kelly Brandli:00:19:23

it was a combination of both. So after my marriage ended, I met somebody very quickly and we ended up in a four year on and off relationship. After that relationship ended is when I started You know, going on this journey of I need to date. I need to figure out what I want. And so with that question in mind, what do I want? Who am I? I started keeping a journal and that's how it all started. It started with no sort of hidden agenda in it. And then as I started going on and I started seeing patterns and I started studying dating so that I could get better, then it became I need to test some theories. And, part of it, it's a funny story. I think it's funny being an ex head hunter. I was used to doing interviews like six, seven a day. And so I dated in that way. And so I would arrange like six, seven dates on a Saturday, like an hour, like tucked. And I did it, for those of you in Switzerland, I did it at, Bellevue where there's, two bars and they're connected by an underground. And so I would meet one guy in one bar. And at the end of the hour, I would like go through the underground and meet the next guy at the next bar. And I did that all day. And the people running the restaurant and the bar, they knew that I was doing this. They were always laughing. It was like, Oh, your next date's here. And so.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:20:42

hilarious.

Kelly Brandli:00:20:43

It was very, very much in the name of research. Yeah.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:20:48

I'm sure those 96 guys love knowing that they were part of a research.

Kelly Brandli:00:20:53

Rene almost walked out of our first date because I refused to tell him what I did for a living. And so it was this big secret. And then on our first date, when I did tell him, he asked me the question, are you here for, for business or pleasure? And he had his keys in his hand ready to run. When I said it's bait and switch, I'm here to date you, to introduce you to somebody else. So it almost cost me. the best relationship of my life.

Megan J. McCrory:00:21:20

Wow.

Kelly Brandli:00:21:22

I think I was able to convince him, just in, in the nick of time that it was personal. And, I think I put my hand, I talk about physical touch in early dating. I put my hand on his arm at just the right moment. And I think that did it for him. And he said, I need to explore this a bit further.

Megan J. McCrory:00:21:41

I could totally see you turning your 96 dates into some kind of a book. Please tell me you have some book in mind for this.

Kelly Brandli:00:21:49

Well, that was my original thought, but do you know how many people have written that book? So I have another book in mind, which will of course include some of my most interesting and funny dating stories. I'd like to share much more of the outcome, the learnings, the wisdom that came from all those dates rather than just the entertainment factor.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:22:09

96 guys, which sounds like you probably could do in a couple of weekends in the way that you did it.

Kelly Brandli:00:22:18

It actually took me 18 months, but, uh, yeah.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:22:21

Wow. Okay. So 18 months, which is a legitimately long time. Did you realize, because you were talking about the health impact that, you know, losing your husband and losing your mom in a very short amount of time affected on you, did that, those 18 months ago, like, how did that affect on your health, your, psych, your just everything? Silence.

Kelly Brandli:00:23:00

that had a lot of anxiety built into it, which meant my whole self worth was linked to what happened on these dates, right? So if I'd go on a date and the guy didn't like me, then I would be destroyed after that. And it would take me a while to then do the next date and going through all the research and learning about attachment style. I realized why I suffered so much after bad dates. And what I then learned is how do I shift that so I don't feel so attached to the outcome, but I still am invested. And in that process of going through my own healing of my attachment, I started to build up my own self confidence and self worth. And I got stronger and stronger. And I was able to then go on a date. And instead of saying, does he like me? I was saying, do I even like him?

Megan J. McCrory:00:23:56

Silence.

Kelly Brandli:00:23:57

And that shifted and that's where my health shifted dramatically because I was no longer putting my own worth and value on what some random guy I was dating thought of me. And that was massive. And so that's the health piece that I teach the clients that I work with to help them do just that to really shift that so that if they go on a date and it works out or it doesn't work out, they still feel great about themselves and they know that. That wasn't the right person for them, but he or she is out there and they'll find them if they're willing to keep, up with the process. Silence.

Megan J. McCrory:00:24:47

I was dating that I very much had that same kind of. Thought process that if something went wrong, it was my fault, or because of something I did didn't, I didn't have that view of did I like that person. And I think partly it's because I'm very easygoing. I'm not very particular. And I find some people who are particular are very. I think it's easier for them to say, Oh no, that's not my style of person. And maybe not attach themselves to the outcome as much. In your time now with working with people, how does that play out between? No.

Kelly Brandli:00:25:24

So no is the answer. It's we think that there's more women that feel that way, simply because more women vocalize that because as women, we tend to be much more comfortable in sharing those feelings like I'm so sad after a date where men don't You know, tend to just get on with it, but what we know from science and what I know from working with clients about 50 percent of the people are what we call securely attached and the other 50 percent have insecurities, and, you know, happens as easily in men or women. but we've sort of stereotyped this and again, I blame Hollywood for so much that's wrong in this world and Hollywood has done a beautiful job of making women, you know, that sort of. Needy, going after the, the man type thing and the man being the strong, call him the island, you know, you can't reach me. I'm emotionally unavailable, but that's not the reality. There's just as many men and women in each group.

Megan J. McCrory:00:26:23

Silence.

Kelly Brandli:00:26:23

And, you know, that's one of the things is for men who are brave enough to sort of step up and say, Hey, this is what I've dealt with, to be able to help them because this comes from our childhood. Okay. And we have no control over the family we're born into. And so if our parents weren't able to give us the love and support we needed when we needed it, we grow up with an insecure attachment and that's just the reality. And so there's no, difference between the genders to say only women grow up in a certain household and men don't, right. they each have the same chance of having that kind of childhood.

Megan J. McCrory:00:27:02

Yeah, but that makes sense when you say that women just verbalize it more. men just keep it inside or don't verbalize it as much to the world as women do. But that's good. I'm glad that you mentioned this because. I, I always had that impression and I'm sure you're right. I'm sure that I had my rose colored Hollywood glasses on. Yeah. So you primarily work with divorced people. Is that all you work with? Or is that kind of where you've specialized? Is that where you want to stay? Or can our single people who have never been divorced give you a ring as well?

Kelly Brandli:00:27:38

So I work with men and women who have been divorced, are children, I say adult children of divorce. I have been divorced. Clients who say my parents should have been divorced. Does that count? Can I work with you? Absolutely. Yes And I also work with a lot of people who I say, you know We're married to their careers and they need to get divorced first before they're going to find love So it pretty much includes everybody in some way shape or form because yeah, I mean that's sort of the world that that we live in nowadays And so whether they're long term singles for whatever reason You or they've been through a divorce or a breakup of a relationship where they weren't married. I can certainly help them.

Megan J. McCrory:00:28:26

after you've been divorced different than before you've been divorced? Because Donna and I, neither one of us have been divorced. So we're not, we don't have any real world experience here. So maybe you could fill us in.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:28:39

Get us, get us ready for when we finally divorce our horrible men.

Kelly Brandli:00:28:44

that is not going to happen because you both have the best men in the world.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:28:47

That's true.

Kelly Brandli:00:28:48

And so they should listen to this and make sure they stay that way. so what's the difference? So when we're young and we're dating, right, we've got our Hollywood glasses on. And, you know, we're going out and we're looking for this, this Hollywood dream, right? we're naive to think that everything happens like in Hollywood. And so we don't have this realistic touch that you do later in life when you've had a relationship that you thought was the one, or you've been through a divorce. And so the big difference, and that was what I learned through my process, is that you need to work through those past relationships and let them go first. Because if you don't, you can't build A new relationship with a foundation of trust. And that's the big difference. So, so many people after, I'll say divorce, but I'm encompassing all of that, say, I can't trust anybody. I can't be intimate because I don't want them to see the parts I don't like about myself. And so, without working through the past, They just keep bringing that into the new relationship. And that's what I did over and over again until I figured it out is, you know, Oh, but my ex did this. And, the person says, but I'm not your ex. But you say, yeah, but I'm scared. Well, it's like, okay, that's your stuff to deal with. You know, and that's the big difference that people miss. And so a lot of people after a breakup or divorce, they go out and look at, okay, how do I use dating apps? And what should I wear? And where should we go? And those are all great things, but there's so much later in the process. You first need to, to work on letting go. And then you got to get healthy, which is, I say you need to become the one before you find the one. Because to have a healthy relationship, you want to meet at eye level. You don't want somebody to save you from a life that you think is miserable. You want them to come in and you want to both complement each other's great lives. And so you first need to do that. And then once those two areas are covered, then you can talk about all the dating strategies and which app and what your profile looks like and all that stuff.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:31:03

Right. It's so interesting that you bring this up, because we often talk about this at home, my boys always want to hear about how we met and things like that. And my husband and I could have potentially had our lives crossed a few years earlier. And every time we bring that up and I think back to me at that age when I could have, should have, you know, like met him, I go like, no, no, no, no, no. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for you. I had to go through all of these other relationships. And I was just telling Megan, those relationships lasted maybe two weeks, maybe two months, but that was about it. but I had to go through it. I had to go through it in order to discover myself better, to understand myself better and what I'm actually looking for and, and who I actually am, let alone the fact that after I met my husband and until today, we both grew, you know, together, but we both grew as humans as well. So, it's really interesting to think about it in that way, where, when you can't find love, when you're struggling, What is going on within yourself? what are you stuck on and what are you kind of, expecting, I guess, from yourself or from, from this mysterious partner that you haven't really kind of developed within yourself yet. I always say that everything happens for a reason. And so, you know, all of those heartbreaks that I had, all of those random relationships that I had. whatever it is that I went through before actually meeting my husband, which I was lucky enough to meet pretty young, they had a reason. And the reason that I did not meet him until that moment was because I was plain not ready. I would have broken that relationship. Oh my God, I would have burnt it to the ground, you know, if it was just like a year earlier, even. So I, I love that you, that you bring that up. And yeah, I think that was my, there was no question there.

Kelly Brandli:00:32:58

No, but I, I think you've touched on a really important point, which is, life, the world, universe, whatever God gives us the lessons we need to learn over and over until we learn them. And I remember after my third relationship ended, I was sitting in bed. It was like one or two in the morning and I remember just crying like tears just like pouring down my face because I was like, why can't I figure this out? What's wrong with me? You know? And so I turned to Google as we do in this day and age. And I said, why am I single again? And unfortunately, which is exactly what I needed in that moment, but it was pretty blunt. It said, if you're single again, the problem's you, it's not the people out there. And that was for me, that wake up call that I needed to say, Oh, maybe I should look at me, you know, instead of blaming all the men I was dating saying, you know, they're this, or they're not this, what am I doing? What, what am I bringing to the table? And that for me was a real mind shift that, That changes. Okay. There's a lesson that I haven't been able to learn yet. and I need to learn that first before I'm going to be ready for that relationship. Okay.

Megan J. McCrory:00:34:23

more than a couple months, but after that, I didn't really have any kind of really long relationships until I met my husband here in Switzerland. So maybe, maybe 10 years where there was kind of just on and off again, relationships and just kind of living my life But I also feel that even if I, even though that I haven't been divorced, I think that the act of growing up. Also helps with this because if you get married at a young age before you actually know yourself, which I know old people say that and young people are like, I know myself, but you don't very few young people actually know themselves. And when they do, they're, they're miles ahead of their, counterparts. But I feel like having that time and also kind of accepting, And I don't want to say lowered expectations because it sounds like I don't expect a lot from life. I literally said, I am happy with myself. Therefore, if I get married, that's great. If I have kids, fine. But it was never like I needed to get married. I never needed to have kids. And I feel like that makes a big distinction because for some people who want to have a family, this kind of puts this pressure to find someone maybe before they're ready in order to start that family process. And I feel like that's just, such a crime for humanity. To not be able to have children whenever we want to biologically to fit with our, where we are with ourselves. You know what I mean? And I feel like from my point of view, it was such a blessing that I said, well, I don't really, I'm not sure if I really ever want to have kids. So therefore I don't necessarily need to ever get married to one person. And therefore I'm happy by myself. And when I found him. Great. He also didn't want to have kids. Perfect. Okay. You know what I mean? But I had a little bit of a leg up because I'd never had that pressure that some people have. And rightfully so. I mean, if you want a family, you have to take that stuff into consideration as a female. just because we're living longer, it doesn't mean our eggs are lasting very much longer, you know?

Kelly Brandli:00:36:45

Yeah, and and men too. I mean, I don't want to exclude men from this. There's men who really want to have children and they realize I don't want to be a father in my 50s. I want to be a father in my 30s or my early 40s. And so they also feel the time pressure which we as society don't recognize often. But I just want to say thank you for your explanation there because you have perfectly described a secure person, somebody who knows that love is available and will always be there when you're ready for it. So if a relationship doesn't work, it doesn't, destroy your self worth and you think, oh, I'm not lovable and things. And so when you're secure, you can have relationships and they come and go and you're still great and you still have this wonderful life. And for the people haven't. And they can't develop that is secure attachment. That's where they struggle with relationships. And that's where I can really help people to work through that is, to help them become that secure so that you know, a relationship ending is always sad. But there's a difference between, you grieve it. you move on with your life versus people who spend years, sometimes decades. stuck because that relationship ended, I've worked with numerous clients who are two, three decades on from a divorce, and they're still stuck in that grief and pain. They can't get themselves out.

Megan J. McCrory:00:38:07

Yeah, I took that emotional baggage quiz on your website today just to test it out, even though I, I've been with my husband for 11 years But yes, do I, every once in a while, look up some of my exes on Facebook or LinkedIn? Of course, but primarily from the aspect of, I really hope they're doing well. Like I felt like I, all of my relationships that I've had in the past have ended in a good way. I, I've, I never had a relationship that ended horribly. Uh, and I feel like it's more of a, Like a touch into their life once a year. How's everything going? Oh, they have kids. Oh, look at this. Oh, you know, that's great. but I did your emotional baggage quiz and I think I came out with a medium with 20 percent emotional baggage and I'm like, Oh, maybe I think about them more than I thought I did, but

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:38:58

Wait, so Kelly, explain to our viewers, our viewers, our listeners, what that quiz is, what, what kind of questions are on there, and what's the point, like, what's the, what is the result giving us?

Kelly Brandli:00:39:11

So for people, generally people who do this quiz are single, so I don't have a lot of data from for married people doing that quiz, but it relates to this. What do you need to let go of to be ready for a new relationship? And so for most people, this is really eyeopening because It shows to them where they are emotionally, how much emotional baggage they're carrying within that they'll bring into a new relationship. I think of it as the difference between, you know, check baggage and carry on baggage at the airport. do you have this really small carry on where you sort of whiz through and you, and you do it, or are you that sort of, mother of five with, you know, a bag on each shoulder and two carry ons and a child and, and you're just like, So weighted down that everyone just kind of gets out of the way. And so this baggage quiz is just sort of a really simple 10 questions to help people see how much baggage are you carrying? And is that something you should look at? You know, at the first stage of, of being ready for a new relationship, what do you need to let go of? And so this is often very eye opening for people who go, Oh, wait a second. I thought I was over that and now I see maybe I'm not quite as far along as I thought I was.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:40:25

That's super interesting. So what's the next step after taking that quiz?

Kelly Brandli:00:40:30

so basically you'll get a result that shows where your baggage is. There's some tips, of how you can overcome that or certainly after that, if somebody's interested in having a call with me, we can jump on a call. I can help them, interpret that and then also see what else may be standing in their way of finding love. We can look at their attachment style and how that could be impacting them.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:40:54

Amazing.

Megan J. McCrory:00:40:55

I don't know if you guys watch RuPaul's Drag Race. Do you guys watch RuPaul's Drag

Kelly Brandli:00:40:59

No, sorry.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:41:01

No.

Megan J. McCrory:00:41:01

Okay, because at the end of every single episode of whatever RuPaul's in, he always says, if you can't love yourself, how the hell are you gonna love anybody else? I mean, it's just, every single time, you know, like, Yeah, that's right. You know, I mean, I feel like that's the basis of what you've been talking about, Kelly, is that if you can't really take the time and learn to love yourself and let that stuff go and really focus on who you are and what you need, right? What do you need out of a relationship and what can you bring to a relationship and not what somebody else is going to bring? it's that understanding yourself better and that goes back to all the health coaching stuff is. Any, in any aspect of your life. It's all about knowing yourself better. And as soon as you begin to just take the time, step back, grant yourself the time to learn what you want, who you are, what you like, what you don't like. How your body reacts to different situations, how your mind plays out things or doesn't play out thing. I mean, all of this stuff is, is health related in, in the, what Donna and I have talked about before on the podcast. It's like, as soon as you know it, then you can do something about it, whether or not, you know, but the point is, if you don't know, if you don't take that time, then you're, you're going to Tanzania without a fucking map and you're never going to get there.

Kelly Brandli:00:42:28

You're absolutely right. And people often say to me, Oh, I hear all this self love stuff. I don't know what this means. And, and I always say, well, if you don't already own it, you can't give it away. So you better figure it out.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:42:42

Yeah. Yeah. And, and one thing that completely like echoes in my head that actually one of my clients told me, was, not everyone is going to love you. You're not pizza. Right?

Kelly Brandli:00:42:53

good point.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:42:54

Right? And I'm like, and, and even pizza, not every single person loves. So it's, it's such a good kind of catchphrase of just understanding, like, even if you're very ready and you're very, you know, you have that, you know, self awareness for yourself and self love. It doesn't mean that now everyone's going to fall to your feet, like, because not everyone is a perfect match for you. And oftentimes, and Kelly, I'm sure you have plenty to say about this, sometimes when someone is being an asshole, to put it lightly, Right? At a date or at, in the office or whatever it is. It's usually a reflection of what they feel about themselves or it's like, you know, it's just the bitterness that they have within them rather than what they feel towards you. And so taking that step back and going like this had nothing to do with me, right? Even if it's someone bumping into you in the street and then like muttering something, you weren't a target. You were just In the way,

Kelly Brandli:00:43:55

Absolutely.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:43:56

nothing, nothing to do with you. So do you have clients who are in fact ready and are in fact in that state where they do have the self love that they need in order to be open to a new relationship and they come back to you crushed after they've had all these revelations with you and they went on a date and they come back crushed and like this didn't work and this is terrible.

Kelly Brandli:00:44:17

Yes, and that's their attachment style coming up again. And so we work through it and then they, they get it all on, on a theoretical level. They're like, yeah, this is definitely changed. I've implemented this with my boss. With my mother, everything's great. They go out on a date and they say, now it doesn't work. Um, and it's, it's a whole nother level. And so that's just part of the process of we get the lesson over and over again, until we really learn it. And attachment is something that you can always come back to and revisit. What do I believe about myself? Do I think I'm not good enough? And I go on a date and he or she confirms to me, I'm not good enough. Well. That's it. And one of my key things that I talk about is the three C's of dating and relationships, which is compatibility, connection, and chemistry, but in that order. And so people often think it's the spark, right? Well, you can just F the spark, like really, it's compatibility. And compatibility, like Megan said, it's, it's about a map. And when we go out dating, we've got our map of the world and we want to find somebody who has a similar map to ours, because when we live our life, according to the same map, things become easy, right? When one person says, go left. The other person looks at their map and goes, yeah, we go left here. But when we meet somebody, they may be a great person, but they've got a totally different map of the world. Right? No matter how much we try to make those maps align, they're never going to align. And that's part of compatibility. And when people don't understand, you're looking for compatibility first, they put their self worth in the middle and say, I'm not good enough. But actually, your maps just don't align.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:46:02

Um,

Megan J. McCrory:00:46:20

halfway to the really good place because they've identified what they need. You know, what is their map? What does their life look like? And yeah, if I meet somebody and in a couple of dates, I realized that that doesn't line up, why would you continue going along this when it's just going to end in heartbreak, but yet somehow. We stigmatize this person as not just letting romance happen and they're too controlling and stuff and it's like Really? No, I mean, actually they're probably right on. But we're watching how I met your mother again. And we just passed the episode where, He goes to a matchmaker and she can't find a match for him and she's like gonna throw her whole business out the window because there's science behind this and there's this one person you don't have any matches. It was hilarious. But in the end, he's like, No, I have faith that I will find someone. But the science and understanding the mechanisms behind it, like, I've never heard of this kind of attachment thing before. And it makes, So much sense when you say it out loud, but again, this is stuff. We don't teach our kids. We don't teach young people that this is, that this is the way, you know, because think about it when you're dating and you're teenage and 20 early twenties. I mean, that's really damaging during that time period. When you have that huge, they don't have any representation. They didn't see, you know, you

Kelly Brandli:00:47:43

at that age, you're looking for the prom date, and that's a really dangerous place to be, right? You want to date the hottest person in school to go to the prom, right? Like, you're not looking, is this person married? material, where they, you know, be a good partner. Will they be a good mother or father and what are our core values? And do we share values? And that's not what you're looking for at that age, but later in life, that becomes so much more important to how you create that list. It's not about how tall they are, you know, what kind of job they have, what kind of car it's. Do we share the same value when it comes to having children? So when we're young, our list is so much about how did they look? How much status do they have at school? And what job do they have or what are they going to get? We date a lot on potential versus reality. And later in life, these things become much more important to us. Our values, that's who we are. And so we want to have somebody who shares those values, who has the same map.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:48:44

You

Kelly Brandli:00:48:55

or do we invest in education or experiences and travel? So those are the kind of values that should be on your list rather than, you know, height and weight and how long their hair is and what color it is and all those things, because those things don't matter in relationships at the end of the day. It's the values that science shows is what creates healthy long term relationships.

Megan J. McCrory:00:49:23

Beautiful. Okay.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:49:52

apparently. I need all of them. No, I don't need all of them. But like, I'm very like, I, I, you know, I need my husband, like, I tell my family, I love them probably a trillion times a day. It's like disgusting. I will grab everyone for a hug, like all the time. Whenever I pass someone, I like touch them or hug them or touch their hair. Like I'm, I'm very much a physical person, but I'm also like, Do the freaking dishes to show me that you love me. Don't just tell me that you love me. Right? So I'm like, I'm driving them crazy basically. But what I notice about other couples and and like clients who come up to me and they start talking about their partner and how this was annoying or that was annoying and I bring it up. I think that it's it's a huge part. of understanding the relationship that you could be in, potentially, but also the relationship that you are in, and how you can understand each other better, because it could be that the compatibility is there, but the communication, I guess, is kind of blurred, because when your partner is doing the dishes because that's their way of showing you love, but you don't see it as that, and you're sitting there expecting them to bring flowers or I don't know what, right? Then, then there is this kind of interruption in communication that is not verbal.

Megan J. McCrory:00:51:12

Mm hmm.

Kelly Brandli:00:51:13

I could talk about this for hours. I love the love languages and it sounds like you're, you're very fluent in many languages, which is super. And that's probably part of the success of. Your marriage and your family is that you can speak other people's main love language and however, they're communicating their main love language. You can receive, where the love languages really help people is if you've got one dominant love language, and that's the only way you can actually receive love you might miss. the other thing. So if you're a person who needs to have that constant, I love you, I love you, I love you. And your partner is the person who shows love through acts of service. And, you know, they don't say I love you all the time, but you know, they vacuum the floor, they do the dishes, they wash your car, they put gas in your tank. They're telling you all the time how much they love you. But you can't receive it. And, you know, that's one of the challenges. There's, there's a joke about a couple who have been together for 50 years and they go to, to the, divorce court to get a divorce and the judge says, well, what's the reason for the divorce? And the woman says, she, he never tells me that he loves me. And he says to her, I told you the day we got married, I loved you. If it had changed, you would have been the first to know. And it was that sort of. It confirms, right? She needed to hear it. He didn't think he needed to say it, but he probably did so many other things that she never realized were his expression of love. And

Megan J. McCrory:00:52:47

love language all the time in our household. First of all, my husband loves taking any kind of quizzes. So whenever there's a quiz, I'm like, here, take this quiz. See what you are. We just did our chronotype. You know, we're both bears, which means, which is good. Cause we're very compatible in terms of daily routines. So we did the Love Languages years ago, and it was, it had a very good effect on our relationship, and most of the time now, at least once a week, we talk about Love Languages, and most of the time is me sitting on the couch and going, Will you go get me a glass of water, please? My lovely ex of service. And it's like, yep, okay, yeah, and then every once in a while he'll want to cuddle, and I'm just like, I don't want to cuddle. He's like, but, I need to cuddle like, you know, like, and to be able to reference the life languages is a really good kind of, I don't want to use the word crutch, but it's like a, like a, like a platform or someplace where we can both have the common language of what do we need right now? And, I'm not a big presence person, but, uh, and my love language gifts were high on my list. And I think when I tried to explain to my husband, like, no, I don't need you to bring me flowers every day. I think. And the way I translated this to my own, my, for my own self was by you buying a gift meant that you were thinking about me at some point in the day today, or you have taken the time and energy to do that. And therefore, that is the love, not the actual thing. Thing that I am getting from it, right? It's, it's really the, you have thought about me at some other point in time, or you have arranged something in a way that, you know, and when I explained it to him this way, he's like, oh, okay, well that makes more sense than I just need to have, you know, chocolates and flowers every day, as a gift, as a gift, love language. But, um, definitely I love, love languages. I talk about them constantly with like couples and, uh, it's even without couples, like you said, it's, uh,

Kelly Brandli:00:54:50

Um, You

Megan J. McCrory:00:55:12

came unstable. It says unstable. Yeah. So, so this kind of dichotomy with my parents relationship, I could see very clearly. And again, after I learned about love languages, then it was like, Oh, that's the reason why they had this misunderstanding or the rub. And that's A lot of times you can see that that's the rub in people's relationships is that they haven't understood their love language yet. And they just don't think the other person is showing them the love in the way that they need it.

Kelly Brandli:00:55:43

Yeah, and I, I love the way you say to use the language to give this understanding because that's so important. One of the principles I teach is set the other person up for success, right? Don't try and catch your partner like in a trap and make them fail, but help them succeed. And using the love language is a great way to do that. When you have that common language to say, it means a lot to me to get a gift. But it could be a post it note, you know, with, I'm thinking of you and a heart. That could be the gift that says, Hey, he or she thought of me today. It doesn't need to be something super expensive. And if you love flowers, tell your partner what kind of flowers so that when they give them to you, you have excitement about them rather than going, but those aren't the ones I really wanted, you know, set them up for success. And by using the love languages and communicating. you know, what you need when you need it. You do that for your partner and that's a huge gift.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:56:41

do you mind if we give our listeners a freebie of the questionnaire that you guys were talking about, that Megan took?

Kelly Brandli:00:56:48

Absolutely. Yeah. I can give you the link and you can share that and everyone's welcome to go through that and see how much emotional baggage they may or may not have.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:56:59

Awesome. Thank you so much, Kelly.

Megan J. McCrory:00:57:01

Thank you. If you're still hanging around, here's some stuff we couldn't fit in, but we thought it was funny. Outtakes. I could totally be a motorcycle person because I, I have, I was in the moped army in the U. S. We did, yes, I had a Puch, which is actually a German model. And, uh, yeah, no, we had this, uh, totally cool little clique of people who had mopeds and we would ride our mopeds around and sound, um, uh, like a big, like swarm of mosquitoes going by.

Danna Levy Hoffmann:00:57:36

Oh, I would have killed you. Oh, I would have, I would have probably punctured your wheels every single night.